Pleading the Blood or Denying Its Power?

Drew over at Sign of Jonah spells out nicely what’s wrong with the charismatic prophetic movement’s insistence on “pleading the blood” and the motivations and principles behind it. Read it here.

Interesting to note is the posturing Lou and other folks do. They set themselves in such a position that if you disagree with them on any point, immediately you are accused of hating babies and loving abortion. I have a friend right now who is angry at me because I won’t join or support Bound4Life, a group founded by Lou Engle which advocates the recitation of a ritual prayer which “pleads the blood.”

The problem is not with wanting to end abortion. As Drew so rightly put it: “It doesn’t matter how noble the purpose seems, nothing justifies treating God’s word this way. Abortion is a vehicle in this case, it’s an emotional hot-button and a common banner that Mike and Lou use to unite under.”

I couldn’t agree more, Drew. Lou and Mike twist scripture or make up spiritual-sounding ideas in order to justify their agenda. They appeal to something which is extremely emotionally-charged and deceive people who have a monumental emotional stake in stopping this mass murder due to some encounter with abortion somewhere along the road of life, whether in their own lives or in the life of someone they know.

I don’t question the sincerity of Lou Engle or Mike Bickle or anyone else. Their theology, doctrine, and motivations are where I take issue. And in the end, it’s not about their sincerity at all, because anyone can be sincere and still be wrong. In this case, Lou and Mike are sincerely mistaken and what they teach and advocate is errant. We would be wise to avoid associating with them and other false teachers.


25 Responses to Pleading the Blood or Denying Its Power?

  1. Jim says:

    Can you explain a bit more. You made some pretty strong statements, “Lou and Mike twist scripture or make up spiritual-sounding ideas to justify their agenda.”, “They set themselves in such a position that if you disagree with them on any point, immediately you are accused of hating babies and loving abortion.”

    Again, these are strong statements and are unfair to make without the backing up of facts.

  2. Bill says:

    That’s a fair request, Jim.

    If you take a look over at the Sign of Jonah post I linked near the top of the post, Drew’s got some transcripts up and comments directly regarding what they have said. If you don’t trust his transcription, he has linked directly to their site which has audio available from the interview:

    If you download the one that has Mike Bickle as a guest, that’s the one we’re addressing here.


  3. Jim says:


    Thanks for clarifying your points.

    I am still having a hard time understand what you are talking about. I would love to hear in your own words instead of in Drew’s. I naturally do not agree with what Drew has been saying and find it interesting that you are following in their footsteps. Please clarify in your own language. thanks.


  4. Bill says:

    Jim, I’m not sure why one would “naturally disagree” with the guys over at SoJ. Are you saying that you are a follower/supporter of Lou Engle/Mike Bickle and/or others in the new prophecy charismatic camp?

    Mike and Lou make up extra-biblical doctrines like creating “pockets of mercy” around the nation and the concept of “pleading the blood” of Christ to somehow repent of someone else’s sins for them. These are not biblical teachings and they are leading people astray and into utterly unfruitful deeds.

  5. Jim says:


    Im not a necessarily a follower of Lou and Mike but I can honestly say I do not see how they are hurting christianity. I guess that is what I am getting at.

    Why dedicate a whole site to this?

  6. Bill says:

    I can certainly understand your concern. On the surface it seems like Drew and Keith over at SoJ are just a couple of downers. I suggest you look a little deeper. Drew and Keith have a love for *truth* and I think that you might also. The problem with guys like Mike Bickle, Lou Engle, Rick Warren, Rob Bell, et cetera ad infinitum is that they teach things that are not true or they only teach partial truths.

    As John MacArthur would tell you, any half truth presented as a whole truth is an untruth. These men have had ample opportunities to correct their errant teachings and publicly renounce the heresies that they are teaching. They have not done so.

    Those who have been entrusted with the truth have a *duty* to protect God’s flock from those who would ravage it, namely false teachers and those who introduce error into the church. They dedicate their time to revealing error as a direct act of guarding the flock of Jesus Christ jealously.

    People that teach false things in the church are absolutely destructive to Christianity. And when many of these men are teaching what amounts to salvation by man’s effort, that’s a *big* deal. Soteriology is *not* a non-essential. What these men teach is out and out heresy and it needs to be called such. That’s why Drew and Keith spend time correcting error. That’s why I myself spend time analyzing the teachings of even the teachers I trust!

    And yeah, sometimes they can be bitterly sarcastic and condescending where there is no need. I’m guilty of doing it sometimes too. It’s a pitfall that one must guard his heart against while still zealously defending the Truth.

  7. Bill says:

    Jim, as i was browsing, the thought occurred to me to check Bound4Life’s website for more direct clarification regarding their tactics and beliefs.

    On their website, I found the following quote up at the top of the description of their “silent sieges”:

    “Lay siege against it, build a siege wall against it… Set your face against it, and it shall be besieged, and you shall lay siege against it.” (Ezekiel 4:2-3 NKJV)

    Sounds good right? Clearly that’s a command to someone to siege a wall right? “Let’s lay siege against abortion because abortion is bad! Look! We even have Scripture to back us up!”

    Or do they? Let’s take that Scripture a little more in context, shall we. I’ll use the KJV and NASB just so we’re getting a fuller picture.

    “Thou also, son of man, take thee a tile, and lay it before thee, and portray upon it the city, even Jerusalem: And lay siege against it, and build a fort against it, and cast a mount against it; set the camp also against it, and set battering rams against it round about. Moreover take thou unto thee an iron pan, and set it for a wall of iron between thee and the city: and set thy face against it, and it shall be besieged, and thou shalt lay siege against it. This shall be a sign to the house of Israel.”
    (Eze 4:1-3 KJV)

    “Now you son of man, get yourself a brick, place it before you and inscribe a city on it, Jerusalem. Then lay siege against it, build a siege wall, raise up a ramp, pitch camps and place battering rams against it all around. Then get yourself an iron plate and set it up as an iron wall between you and the city, and set your face toward it so that it is under siege, and besiege it. This is a sign to the house of Israel. ”
    (Eze 4:1-3 NASB)

    Oops! Looks like they’re way off base. Not only does the end of this passage make clear that this is a sign to the house of Israel, but if you’ll read the preceding chapter and the rest of chapter 4, you’ll notice that this passage is God specifically commanding his prophet, not a general proclamation to the people.

    Again, I cannot stress this enough: it does not matter how noble the purpose seems, nothing justifies treating God’s word this way.

    Bound4Life and other organizations associated with the prophetic charismatic movements of Lou Engle and Mike Bickle are justifying their actions based on ridiculously misinterpreted and out-of-context Scripture (mostly out of the Old Testament to give it that prophetic feel, I’d imagine).

    You may ask what’s the big deal? The big deal is that they are false teachers and we should have nothing to do with them!

  8. Jim says:


    This is great! I am learning a ton. I am going to ask you some questions though. Just to help me understand and get deeper into this. I greatly appreciate you humility in this whole thing. There is a noted difference in the way you post. That being said, I too have a love for truth. I am going to dive deepr.

    You said, “As John MacArthur would tell you, any half truth presented as a whole truth is an untruth.”

    Did you not do this earlier in your post by making statements, partial truths, and not backing them up?

    You said, “The problem with guys like Mike Bickle, Lou Engle, Rick Warren, Rob Bell, et cetera ad infinitum is that they teach things that are not true or they only teach partial truths.”

    Can you show me some partial truths that specifically Mike Bickle teaches? I can understand the bound 4 life deal but that is not specifically Bickle. In fact, if I remember correctly, he had not part in starting bound 4 life or giving vision to this movement.

    You said, “You may ask what’s the big deal? The big deal is that they are false teachers and we should have nothing to do with them!”

    So because Lou took an Old Testament verse and is using it to have young adults pray for their country means that Lou is a false teacher and we should have nothing to do with him? Mike and Lou love Jesus, love the Word of God, love Prayer and love christianity. Give me some more false teachings from Bickle.

  9. Bill says:

    You said, “As John MacArthur would tell you, any half truth presented as a whole truth is an untruth.”

    Did you not do this earlier in your post by making statements, partial truths, and not backing them up?

    My friend, making an assertion and not providing specific instances of evidence is not the same thing as presenting a half truth as a whole truth. I have read, watched, and listened to some of the things these guys teach and that’s where I have drawn my conclusions and that’s why I make the assertions that I do. I do my best to provide links to reliable sources of information regarding these guys and their teachings, and I welcome reasonable requests that I back up what I have to say with Scripture and evidence of false teaching.

    The main point, though, is that an unsubstantiated assertion is a different thing altogether from a half-truth.

    What I am referring to by half truths is saying something like “God loves you and wants a relationship with you.” like Rick Warren would tell you. That’s true, but it’s only *part* of the truth. For instance, Rick Warren won’t tell you that you deserve death and hell for your sin against a holy God. Listen to him for yourself!

    Ask yourself this: is sin merely a bad “attitude” that we have? And is the result of sin merely the loss of relationship with God?

    As for Mike Bickle, I’d suggest reading up on some of the material regarding IHOP, or International House of Prayer. You might start here:

    So because Lou took an Old Testament verse and is using it to have young adults pray for their country means that Lou is a false teacher and we should have nothing to do with him?

    I think you misunderstand me here, Jim. It has nothing to do with whether it’s from the Old Testament or the New Testament. He purposefully picked a verse out of context, willfully misinterprets and changes the passage, and then uses that as a justification for what he is doing.

    Again, I will point you to the Bound4Life website to hear the apostasy from their own mouths. Under the heading of Life Bands, subsection “Make the Covenant” ( they say:

    By wearing this band, we are making a covenant to pray for abortion to end every time we see the red mark on our wrist. God has given us a 22-word prayer to replace the one removed from public schools in 1962. It is a powerful point of unity for the movement. “Jesus, I plead your Blood over my sins and the sins of my nation. God, end abortion and send revival to America.” Our vision is to mobilize millions of people lifting up this prayer to God day and night for the ending of abortion.

    Note the language. God has given us this prayer. A emotion-evoking reference to the removal of public school prayer. The prayer itself is a prayer of repentance for someone else’s sins and that is not Scriptural. Not only that, but it’s a ritual prayer like the Catholic Rosary.

    Add to this the so-called “Silent Sieges” where they make a spectacle of themselves, not protesting, as they say, but having a prayer meeting. What does Jesus have to say concerning these things?

    “When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you. And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.
    (Mat 6:5-8)

    The expressed purpose of these “silent sieges” is to be seen by men (But they’re praying! So that’s supposed to make everything kosher!). This unbiblical prayer is to be repeated in ritual manner, and the goal is to get God to do something by getting enough men to pray.

    And before you reply, I implore you friend, ask yourself these questions:

    1. What is the purpose of prayer?

    2. Who does prayer change? God or us?

    This is not a case of one or two non-essential doctrinal disagreements. These men treat the Word of God with utter disregard and reinterpret it for their own purposes and agendas. I will not sit idly by and give tacit approval to what they are telling to my friends and brothers. I will contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.

  10. Jim says:


    Good points but you still fail to elaborate on Mike Bickle using half truths. Again, I ask you to come up with it on your own. I want to see you pick apart Mike’s half truths then repeating what someone else has to say.

    I hope you understand my question. Basically what I am asking is for you to give me some of the half truths that Mike Bickle is preaching right now.

    Also, I see Matthew 6 different then you do. Did Jesus go against his own words when He prayed in front of his disciples in John 17 or when He prayed to His Father on the cross?

  11. Jim says:


    I understand your heart but I want to see how you think Mike Bickle, not Lou Engle, treats the Word of God with utter disregard and reinterpretit it for his own purposes.

    I have thought about yourt two questions as well.

    Pray does change us, but God also works in partnership in accord with our prayer. If you can not see that in the Bible then I might be saying the same about you in showing disregard for the scripture. But I would never say that about someone I have never met, talked to, or had the opportunity to get to know.

  12. Bill says:


    I’m not sure I understand the reasoning behind your request. I have linked you to audio and video resources where you can clearly hear and see the heresies for yourself. I have linked you to pages which describe in detail the false teachings of these men and the Scriptural rebuttals. That some are more abrasive in their rejection of Bickle has no bearing on the nature of his false teachings.

    Why are you demanding that I reanalyze and rewrite specific instances which have already been analyzed for us? Why do you want me to come up with a different way of saying the same thing, namely that Mike Bickle is a false teacher who treats the Scriptures in a manner which is contemptible?

    It doesn’t matter if it’s half truths, out-of-context Scripture, or out and out reversal of what Scripture says, these are all examples of false teaching. That Bickle has a tendency toward one and not perhaps the others does not mean that we must find and dissect an example of each for him to be deemed rightly as a false teacher.

    There are several examples of his false teachings and several people who have analyzed in greater detail than I would care to spend time doing. If you are not willing to seek their analysis before demanding that I do what they have already done, I doubt very highly that you will accept my testimony either. I’m not calling you lazy, but I’m asking you to be noble-minded and seek out others who have written more on these subjects that I have the time to do, and also to spend a little more time reading your Bible so that you can recognize the false sayings coming out of these men.

    I am firmly convinced that the primary defense against heresy and apostasy is solid knowledge of what God’s Word *truly* says.

    As for prayer, is God sovereign? Can He do whatever pleases Him? Does it matter if one man is praying or if a million men are praying? Will not God do that which pleases Him? God does not need us for His power to be somehow “released” as Bickle and others teach.

    Why then do we pray? It puts our hearts and minds in right position with regard to God. In prayer that is biblical, we acknowledge our utter dependence on divine Providence and Grace, and as we humbly bring our requests to Him, we are in effect continually surrendering authority over our lives to Him. God does what pleases and glorifies Him. Our prayers are praises and acknowledgment of this fact and requests that our lives might glorify Him.

    Praying in order to be seen and praying among the brethren are two distinct and very different things. Praying together with the brethren is not a bad thing if done in the right context. If my friends and I go out to dinner and when our meal arrives, we pray loudly in order that we might be seen and heard praying by the people around us, our prayers are in vain. Gathering at a church building to pray is a far cry from gathering outside an abortion clinic or a courthouse to “pray” with the intent of being seen by men.

    As for Christ’s cry on the Cross, it was one of despair for having the sins of those who would be saved placed upon Him. The wrath of God was on Him. He didn’t cry so that people would see that He was praying and think “Oh man look at Him he’s praying what a holy dude.” He cried out in the midst of the soul-wrenching anguish of being utterly cut off from the Father.

    Let me know the next time you see someone being made sin on our behalf and making himself subject to the wrath of God for that sin and I’ll show you a man who has justification for his public prayer.

  13. Jim says:


    You still have not shown me how Bickle treats the scripture with contempt.


  14. Jim says:


    Please explain to me more your position on prayer.


  15. Jeremy Boe says:

    I must say I have read this site, Sign of Jonah and heard Bickle’s teachings and one thing stands out. Now before I make this comment I can only guess that I will be blasted for this statement. I know from reading the posts that Bill and others do not like this.

    But what I have noticed is this: Bickle and Engle speak of God in a way that makes you want to serve HIm all the days of our life. They make God seem personal and as though He desires to have a relationship with us. Bickle portray’s a God that is actually involved in our lives, emotional and neart.

    Bill and others on the other hand portray a God that is stoic, uninvolved, mad, angry and very far away. You portray a God that is not involved with His creation, a God that is more interested in using us then having a relationship with us.

  16. Bill says:

    Jim, I’ll get to your comment in the morning.

    To Jeremy, however, I will say this.

    Where have I presented anywhere that God is anything *but* involved in His creation? The Calvinist position on the doctrines of grace is one that sees God at the beginning, turning point, and conclusion of our salvation. It is a picture of a God who yes, is angry and righteously demands justice for sin. But this same picture shows God to also be so loving and so merciful as to mete out that punishment upon His own Son, Jesus Christ on our behalf.

    I think if you’ll take a serious examination into Calvinism, you’ll find a much higher view of God and His grace, mercy, and love than that for which you give it credit. Calvinism starts with a realistic view of just how sinful we are, and then gives you God in His majesty, placing us flat on our faces in awe of His magnificence, and the vastness of His mercies toward us.

    Contrast that with how Bickle and Engle appeal to your flesh. They romanticize God and make Him out to appeal to your desire to be your own savior (e.g. pray this prayer and you will receive power). Their god merely desires a relationship with us because apparently we’re something pretty special and have some good value in and of ourselves.

    The God of the Bible glorifies Himself and will share that glory with no other being.

    We are all used by God for the ultimate end of His glory, whether we are aware of it or not. We are clay and he is the potter. Who are we to tell the Grand Potter what we ought to be made into or how we ought to be used? It is the height of arrogance which produces the notion that we in any way might exercise control over God to do anything.

  17. tonyatorres says:

    I can’t stand Rick Warren, and I’m litterally afraid of Lou Engle. His shouting is a bit over the top.
    It’s not about the 22 word prayer it’s about actively asking God for assistance on the wickedness in a satan rulled world. If non Chistians can accomplish goals without the assistance of our Father, how much more can a Christian accomplish? The Cleveland division of Bound4LIFE ie Brian and myself, do not “chant” the 22 word prayer. It’s a basic prayer to remind ourselves, and new mambers, what we’re praying for. When I plead Jesus blood over “the sins of my nation” I’m litterally saying that the blood shed is sufficient for the sins of everyone. I’m also saying that my nation needs forgiveness, I’m not saying I’m forgiving the nation by symbolicaly pleeding his blood.
    Do you take communion? You symbolically ingest the blood and body of Christ Jesus. Does this mean you have holly powers? Does this make you saved? Do you think you’re actually eating Jesus? No, come on now that would be ignorant. It’s symbolic. If i were to say “Hey People who get baptized think they’re actually burried to rise again” it would be ignorant. If i said “When someone gets baptized they think their sins are washed away” or “someone who gets baptized thinks they’re baptized with the Holy Spirit” that would be ignorant.
    So by you saying that we believe we can pleed the blood to forgive others is ignorant.
    We don’t siege to be seen either, we do it to serve God. We sacrifice our time our, dignity, and our voices to stand in silent intersession. And when women see us it is not for our glory, it’s for God’s. I know that some will be convicted by God after seeing us, this is just the way he’s chosen to use us. We’re thankful that He has given us the responsibility of relating to others and Him in the same effort to end abortion. We don’t need to involve anyone else we can just get in our private “prayer closets” and pray that abortion will end, but our call is bigger than that, we’re also here to share the gospel and offer support to women who are lost.
    I don’t know if you realize this but i was a very lost young woman, so is it any surprise that God would lay on my heart to reach out to these women? I don’t think it should come as a surprise. So I’ll continue to do what I know God wants me to do. Bound4LIFE is an amazing prayer movement and I’m blessed to be a part of it. Cor 2:8 by glory and dishonor, by evil report and good report; regarded as deceivers and yet true. I won’t fall victim to the stumbling block you’re attempting to set before me. I will not allow your attacks on this blessed organization to hurt me in any way, because I know your opinion is not important, and the only one I shoud please is the Lord himself. With that said, I love you brother. I look foreward to your response. I expect an orgy flood of scripture in you favor, but anyone can use scripture to make a point as you’ve made an example of Lou Engle. So i ask you, not to “use” the Bible the Bible is a Holy book not to be used for your sake. I don’t mind references to valid passages but please don’t overwhelm me with your own disection and interpretation, that really annoys me,

  18. Bill says:


    Is God sovereign? Does God ordain even the intent of evil men to work for His glory and His pleasure? Can Satan do anything save that God allows Him to do it?

    No one can accomplish anything apart from the grace of God. Bill Gates did not amass his billions apart from the grace of God, nor do you and I draw our next breath but by the grace of God. Why are you so concerned with accomplishing something in the first place? That’s very man-centered thinking to expect that if we do something, we can somehow cause God to do something, so long as there’s enough of us or we do it enough times or for a certain length of time.

    The blood of Christ would certainly be sufficient to pay for the sins of all mankind if all were being saved. But all are not being saved. The blood of Christ is effective only for those who are called according to His purposes, that is, those who are and will be saved by grace through faith in Christ.

    So why this “pleading the blood” in the first place? If you want to pray for the nation, pray that God would bring sinners to repentance. Pleading the blood of Christ for someone else’s sins (i.e. “the sins of my nation”) is in effect an attempt to repent for the unrepentant. The fact remains that this is the premise of the prayer, and it is inescapable.

    These men specifically teach that when you pray that prayer you’re going to create “pockets of mercy” and that is absolutely unscriptural. If Lou Engle scares you, why on earth do you partner yourself with an organization that follows him and his teachings?

    Communion is a proclamation of the Lord’s death. “For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.” (1 Cor 11:26) Communion and baptism are indeed symbolic, but prayer is not. The purpose of prayer is not symbolism, and its purpose has never been symbolic.

    The entire premise of “sieging” is based on a blatant misinterpretation of out-of-context Scripture. The blood-pleading prayer itself is unbiblical, and the call to endless repetition is also unbiblical.

    It is not your responsibility to convict sinners of their sin. It is the Holy Spirit’s. And He does it through the preaching of the Word, not through the standing in front of buildings with red tape over our mouths.

    If you truly believe that God has called you to minister to women who are pregnant and considering abortion, I recommend volunteering at a crisis pregnancy center. Counsel women and tell them the good news of Jesus! Tell them that there is hope and that killing their child is not the answer to their problems.

    My friend and my sister, I am not trying to place stumbling blocks in your path. I am trying to warn you of the danger you are in by involving yourself with these men who preach falsely and twist the words of God to say things that He does not. No matter how noble the cause (I hate abortion too!), it does not justify joining ourselves with false teachers.

    You seem to think that just because they want abortion to end and that they pray something that sounds spiritual, that automatically makes them a holy and blessed organization. If I speak something that is clearly contrary to the declarations of Scripture, it does not matter if my motivation is seemingly pure and holy, I am still wrong. Good intentions do not nullify the false teachers with whom Bound4Life identifies itself.

  19. Bill says:

    Jim, I invite you to listen to the audio that I linked in one of my earlier comments and also to read the page that links to the errant harp and bowl teachings if you desire to hear and see for yourself how Bickle makes up doctrine and says things about passages of Scripture which are patently false.

    As for prayer, what specifically are you asking?

  20. Jim says:


    I would like to hear it from you not someone else. Anyone can post a link.

  21. Bill says:


    Yes anyone can post a link. But those links which I have posted are either directly to whole conversations or else to significantly documented actions and quotations which have then been thoroughly analyzed.

    If you’re not willing to trust their observations, why trust mine? In fact, I would tell you don’t. I could, in fact, be completely off base. I challenge you to be noble-minded. Search God’s Word to see if these things are so. Is Mike Bickle a false teacher? Based on the statements he makes and the teachings he espouses, I am thoroughly convinced of this. But don’t simply take my word for it. The Word of God is a far better authority than me; and, in fact, it is the final authority on all such matters. Take your question to God’s Word, friend.

    Read your Bible, then listen to the things Mr. Bickle teachers. Then decide for yourself if they line up. Bill Carlisle is not the final authority on whether or not someone is an apostate or heretic. God’s Word is.

  22. Jim says:

    Bill after reading what you have said to myself and others I do not think we are the ones who are in spiritual danger.

    Ill be praying for you.

  23. Bill says:

    Who’s teaching extra-biblical doctrine and denying fundamentals of the faith? Me or the men you seem so eager to defend?

  24. Jim says:


    You still have yet to tell me what fundamentals of the faith Bickle is denying. Please tell me.

  25. Bill says:


    Your demands keep changing. I suspect you’ll never be satisfied with any answer I give. And you keep twisting my words (much like the men you defend twist God’s Word) to build a straw man and make me say something that was never intended or could be reasonably drawn from what was written.

    I have said of these false teachers in general that they teach extra-biblical doctrines, deny fundamentals of the faith, or both. Of Mike Bickle specifically I have said that he teaches falsely, specifically extra-biblical doctrines. I have pointed you to places where you can read or hear him speaking falsely. His exegesis of Scripture is highly errant (see Harp and Bowl, Tabernacle of David, et cetera).

    Read your Bible and you’ll see that there is no Scriptural basis for the error which Mike Bickle teaches. He willfully and knowingly associates himself with people like Lou Engle and Roman Catholic mystics. Though I might not necessarily brand him with the h-word, I have no qualms about declaring him a false teacher based on even a cursory glance at the things which he teaches and the views to which he holds, particularly with regard to IHOP.

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